In the second installment of our discussion about The Walking Dead Aga, Krzysiek and Mateusz talked, among others, about the departure of key characters from the series, changes in the perception of zombies, the potential future of production and an infection that resembles … Venom. You’re welcome!
Mateusz: You are right, the writers of Dead Men often couldn’t patch the story holes, which evidently killed a lot of potentially promising threads. Now that we’ve mentioned the departures on the show, what was the impact of Rick and Michonne’s (temporary?) Departure on The Walking Dead ? Was it a necessary change and gave space for the development of the plot and other characters, or maybe it plunged the series?
In my opinion, Rick’s departure freed up the plot possibilities a bit, because – as befits the main character – most of the plots revolved around him. For too many seasons, we’ve had to re-watch the character’s metamorphosis, from a strong leader to a deranged and power-hungry leader like the Governor, and then to a despairing suffering, ruthless ruler, compassionate warrior and superhero (even Cap couldn’t handle zombies that well). Honestly, I was getting tired of Rick’s subject. However, I never believed the information that the writers would “beat him”, which translated into the announced film from the world of TWD.It is a pity for Carl, because the hero evolved over the next seasons, thanks to which he grew into a potential leader of the group. It seems that Daryl benefited the most from the departure of the character, because I rate Carol’s case on a par with Rick and I cannot find the motivation to be interested in her too worn-out character.
Aga: In season 9, Rick takes the role of a carpenter or bridge construction manager, and a few years after his loss, we see Michonne as a single mother raising two children and also a member of the city council, who sometimes relaxes in the evening, killing a few stiffs in front of the settlement gate. In real life, these would of course be very noble roles, but for the series, these are not key missions without which its plot could not go on. It is natural to feel sentiment towards both of these characters; We still remember Rick as a lonely gunslinger, straight out of a western, and Michonne in the role of a mysterious warrior with a samurai sword and two zombies accompanying her. Despite the fact that time has taken its toll on them and changes in their lives were inevitable, these images remain the most memorable.
A new group of characters (with the rebellious Magna, music teacher Luke, etc.) that have joined the series do not seem to me as charismatic as the heroes we know before. What distracted me more from the departure of Rick and Michonne were numerous surprising events, such as Alpha’s sneaking into the market, the discovery of her conspirator in the main group, or Negan’s secret mission (it seems that the theme of the last two seasons, is an undercover activity). Finally, we have two epic battles with Whisperers, the first of which (with an ingenious city siege and the use of a resin launcher) was quite unexpected.
Krzysiek: Rick was already a bit too much, yes, but in my opinion his “leaving the stage” could have been solved better. First of all, we needed a competent and story-driven successor, and we didn’t get that. Any characters who for a time have been clearly directed towards future leaders have been defeated beforehand for no apparent reason. Carl? Glenn? Tare? Jesus? Everyone is dead. Instead, old and / or popular characters are promoted to leaders, even if it completely does not match their previously built character – Daryl and Michonne are loners, Carol is unpredictable and unstable, Gabriel is a coward and a traitor. They only become leaders because someone has to, and all the better characters have already been eliminated.
As for Rick himself, I’d rather he “retire” and stay on the show, but in the form of a minor manager and advisor with less screen time to support new leaders, or possibly go to another village that we would not follow, with the possibility of a future return or functioning in the form of an occasional cameo , for example as a voice flowing through a radio station. However, I understand that Rick’s fate was dictated primarily by the decisions of Andrew Lincoln himself, and not the authors of the script.
Mateusz: I like the concept of Krzysiek with Rick as the senior of the settlement. It would be the best fictional solution, but there is still some money from the TWD brand to be “milked”, so it was decided to make films. Since we have said a lot about the main characters of the series, it’s time for “eternal” episodic characters – the living dead – so it’s worth assessing the stages of decay and distribution of zombies. Do you also get the impression that the dead are no longer a greater threat to the heroes? Have you noticed the changes in presenting their possibilities?
In the second season, there is a scene in which Rick loses sight of Sophie (which in turn leads to her death) because he cannot cope with two zombies. In the following series, the characters die only in the attack of the hordes, because the heroes eliminate the corpses on a massive scale, presenting almost indestructibility and superhero powers. Only infecting Carl showed again that one accidental corpse is enough to bite you by surprise and it’s after you. Nevertheless, the fate of young Grimes should be treated as a coincidence that proves the rule.
The perception of the corpses by the heroes has also changed, as we remember the warnings communicated by the characters: do not enter the forest, do not disconnect from the group, etc. Are we waiting for a comic-book depiction of zombies as circus kids?
The way of showing the dead has also evolved. In the first season, Morgan’s deceased wife was able to open the door herself, but now they are closer to pests slightly more dangerous than field mice. They are also definitely slower, more clumsy, lighter and easier to remove knives and arrows from. Of course, the explanation can be found in the slowing down of the decay process, but after this time, malnourished zombies should go to sleep.
Krzysiek: Oh, the changes going in this direction seem sensible to me and quite clearly signaled at the level of the concept behind the entire series. From the very beginning, zombies are the backdrop for post-apocalyptic visions of a reforming society and the individual stories of characters who have to deal with the cataclysm. It’s not Resident Evilhere, the highlight of the program are not the spectacular skirmishes with the rot. I believe that some of the dead bodies actually become less threatening over time due to the progressive decay. Above all, however, the experience of the heroes is growing – those who could not deal with zombies are no longer alive. The rest of them, except for the kids, of course, are basically veterans, and a handful of the undead are not terrible. So other survivors become a much greater threat, which is probably the essence of The Walking Deadfrom the very beginning – more important than the realities of the world are people’s reactions to them and the changes they will bring about in the psyche. So we fear ourselves more than zombies; our brutal instincts, dormant demons, dictated by desperation and the lack of rules of degeneration. So it’s better to go into the forest and fight the corpses than get out of it and meet Negan.
Aga: Just as zombies are used to human heroes and are not smart enough to distinguish them from the real stiff ones, we – the viewers – are also used to rotting and do not impress us too much. I think the creators have to think hard now to surprise us with something. We’ve already seen the crew in costumes similar to the Star Wars Stormtroopers , maybe it will soon turn out that the virus has come from space.
Mateusz: It would be just a hit with the cosmic origin of the virus. Something like Venom? It seems to me, however, that such a thread would be doomed to failure. Moving on to the summary of our conversation, what do you expect from the last season of the series? Are you planning to watch a spin-off with Daryl and Carol, World Beyond and movies with Rick and Michonne? Or maybe you will finally let the zombies go on a well-deserved rest?
I’m finishing with TWD . I want to see the series finale because I’m interested in Negan and Judith’s fate. Nevertheless, I do not intend to waste time on the announced spin-offs, because I treat them as serving an unsold day earlier and again a dirty chop. Although, in fact, I’d love to see a movie with Rick …
Aga: Time will show what the future will bring. We will also see what and when will really arise. I would love to go to the cinema to see movies about Rick Grimes (or at least the first one). When I finish FTWD , I will probably reach for World Beyond . I don’t have very high expectations of him, but I’m curious about the CRM organization that took Rick and Anne in a helicopter.
Krzysztof: I do not plan to return to this universe anytime soon, but I will probably give my first film with Rick a chance – sooner or later. I like this character, I like the world of The Walking Dead , but the development of the main series still disappointed me so much that I do not expect much from the spin-offs and will need a rest before I feel like reading stories about the living dead again.
Mateusz: You are right, the writers of Dead Men often couldn’t patch the story holes, which evidently killed a lot of potentially promising threads. Now that we’ve mentioned the departures on the show, what was the impact of Rick and Michonne’s (temporary?) Departure on The Walking Dead ? Was it a necessary change and gave space for the development of the plot and other characters, or maybe it plunged the series?
In my opinion, Rick’s departure freed up the plot possibilities a bit, because – as befits the main character – most of the plots revolved around him. For too many seasons, we’ve had to re-watch the character’s metamorphosis, from a strong leader to a deranged and power-hungry leader like the Governor, then to a despairing suffering man, ruthless ruler, compassionate warrior, and superhero (even Cap couldn’t handle zombies that well). Honestly, I was getting tired of Rick’s subject. However, I never believed the information that the writers would “beat him”, which translated into the announced film from the world of TWD.It is a pity for Carl, because the hero evolved over the next seasons, thanks to which he grew into a potential leader of the group. It seems that Daryl benefited the most from the departure of the character, because I rate Carol’s case on a par with Rick and I cannot find the motivation to be interested in her too worn-out character.
Aga: In season 9, Rick takes the role of a carpenter or bridge construction manager, and a few years after his loss, we see Michonne as a single mother raising two children and also a member of the city council, who sometimes relaxes in the evening, killing a few stiffs in front of the settlement gate. In real life, these would of course be very noble roles, but for the series, these are not key missions without which its plot could not go on. It is natural to feel sentiment towards both of these characters; We still remember Rick as a lonely gunslinger, straight out of a western, and Michonne in the role of a mysterious warrior with a samurai sword and two zombies accompanying her. Despite the fact that time has taken its toll on them and changes in their lives were inevitable, these images remain the most memorable.
A new group of characters (with the rebellious Magna, music teacher Luke, etc.) that have joined the series do not seem to me as charismatic as the heroes we know before. What distracted me more from the departure of Rick and Michonne were numerous surprising events, such as Alpha’s sneaking into the market, the discovery of her conspirator in the main group or Negan’s secret mission (it seems that the theme of the last two seasons is an undercover activity). Finally, we have two epic battles with Whisperers, the first of which (with an ingenious city siege and the use of a resin launcher) was quite unexpected.
Krzysiek: Rick was already a bit too much, yes, but in my opinion his “leaving the stage” could have been solved better. First of all, we needed a competent and story-driven successor, and we didn’t get that. Any characters who for a time have been clearly directed towards future leaders have been defeated beforehand for no apparent reason. Carl? Glenn? Tare? Jesus? Everyone is dead. Instead, old and / or popular characters are promoted to leaders, even if it completely does not fit their previously built character – Daryl and Michonne are loners, Carol is unpredictable and unstable, Gabriel is a coward and a traitor. They only become leaders because someone has to, and all the better characters have already been eliminated.
As for Rick himself, I’d rather have him “retire” and stay on the show, but in the form of a minor manager and advisor with less screen time to support new leaders, or possibly go to another settlement that we wouldn’t be following, with the possibility of a future return or functioning in the form of an occasional cameo , for example as a voice flowing through a radio station. However, I understand that Rick’s fate was dictated primarily by the decisions of Andrew Lincoln himself, and not the authors of the script.